Women's Issues in the Debate
Presidential Debate 2 Excerpt: Racial Discrimination & Hate Crimes
The complete transcript of this debate is available from the Commission on Presidential Debates
Mr. Lehrer:
First, a couple of follow-ups from the vice presidential debate last
week. Vice President Gore, would you support or sign, as president, a
federal law banning racial profiling by police and other authorities at
all levels of government?
Vice President Gore
Yes, I would. The only thing an executive order can accomplish is to
ban it in federal law enforcement agencies, but I would also support a
law in the Congress that would have the effect of doing the same thing.
I just -- I think that racial profiling is a serious problem. I remember
when the stories first came out about the stops in New Jersey by the
highway patrol there. And I know it's been going on a long time. In
some ways this is just a new label for something that has been going on
for years. But I have to confess that it was the first time that I
really focused on it in a new way. And I was surprised at the extent of
it. And I think we've now got so many examples around the country that
we really have to find ways to end this. Imagine what it -- what it is
like for someone to be singled out unfairly, unjustly, and feel the
unfair force of law simply because of race or ethnicity. Now, that runs
counter to what the United States of America is all about at our core.
And it's not an easy problem to solve. But if I am entrusted with the
presidency, it will be the first Civil Rights Act of the 21st century.
Governor Bush
Yeah, I can't imagine what it would be like to be singled out because of
race and stopped and harassed. That's just flat wrong, and that's not
what America is all about. And so we ought to do everything we can to
end racial profiling. One of my concerns, though, is I don't want to
federalize the local police forces. I want to -- obviously in the
egregious cases we need to enforce civil rights law, but we need to make
sure that internal affairs decisions at the local level do their job and
be given a chance to do their job. I believe in local control of
governments, and obviously if they don't there needs to be a consequence
at the federal level. But it's very important that we not overstep our
bounds and I think most people -- most police officers are good,
dedicated, honorable citizens who are doing their job, putting their
lives at risk who aren't bigoted or aren't prejudiced. I don't think
they ought to be held guilty. But I do think we need to find out where
racial profiling occurs and do something about it and say to the local
folks, get it done. And if you can't, there will be a federal
consequence.
Mr. Lehrer:
And that could be a federal law?
Governor Bush
Yeah.
Mr. Lehrer:
And you would agree?
Vice President Gore
I would agree. And I also agree that most police officers, of course,
are doing a good job and hate this practice also. I talked to an
African-American police officer in Springfield, Massachusetts not long
ago who raised this question and said that in his opinion one of the
biggest solutions is in the training. And not only the training in
police procedures, but human relations. And I think that racial
profiling is part of a larger issue of how we deal with race in America.
And as for singling people out because of race, you know, James Byrd was
singled out because of his race in Texas. And other Americans have been
singled out because of their race or ethnicity. And that's why I think
we can embody our values by passing a hate crimes law. I think these
crimes are different. I think they're different because they're based on
prejudice and hatred, which gives rise to crimes that have not just a
single victim, but they're intended to stigmatize and dehumanize a whole
group of people.
Mr. Lehrer:
You have a different view of that.
Governor Bush
No, I don't, really.
Mr. Lehrer:
On hate crimes laws?
Governor Bush
No. We've got one in Texas. And guess what? The three men who murdered
James Byrd, guess what's going to happen to them? They're going to be
put to death. A jury found them guilty. It's going to be hard to punish
them any worse after they get put to death. And it's the right cause.
It's the right decision. Secondly, there is other forms of racial
profiling that goes on in America. Arab-Americans are racially profiled
in what is called secret evidence. People are stopped, and we have to do
something about that. My friend, Senator Spencer Abraham of Michigan, is
pushing a law to make sure that Arab-Americans are treated with respect.
So racial profiling isn't just an issue at local police forces. It's an
issue throughout our society. And as we become a diverse society, we're
going to have to deal with it more and more. I believe, though -- I
believe, as sure as I'm sitting here, that most Americans really care.
They're tolerant people. They're good, tolerant people. It's the very
few that create most of the crises, and we just have to find them and
deal with them.
Mr. Lehrer:
What -- if you become president, Governor, are there other areas, racial
problem areas, that you would deal with as president involving
discrimination? Like you said, Arab-Americans, but also Hispanics,
Asians, as well as Blacks in this country.
Governor Bush
Let me tell you where the biggest discrimination comes. In public
education when we just move children through the schools. My friend,
Phyllis Hunter, is here. She had one of the greatest lines of all lines.
She said, reading is the new civil right. She's right. And to make sure
our society is as hopeful as it possibly can be, every single child in
America must be educated. I mean every child. It starts with making
sure every child learns to read. K-2 diagnostic testing so we know
whether or not there's a deficiency. Curriculum that works and phonics
needs to be an integral part of our reading curriculum. Intensive
reading laboratories, teacher retraining. I mean, there needs to be a
wholesale effort against racial profiling, which is illiterate children.
We can do better in our public schools. We can close an achievement gap,
and it starts with making sure we have strong accountability, Jim. One
of the cornerstones of reform, and good reform, is to measure. Because
when you measure you can ask the question, do they know? Is anybody
being profiled? Is anybody being discriminated against? It becomes a
tool, a corrective tool. And I believe the federal government must say
that if you receive any money, any money from the federal government for
disadvantaged children, for example, you must show us whether or not the
children are learning. And if they are, fine. And if they're not, there
has to be a consequence. And so to make sure we end up getting rid of
basic structural prejudice is education. There is nothing more
prejudiced than not educating a child.
Mr. Lehrer:
Vice President Gore, what would be on your racial discrimination
elimination list as president?
Vice President Gore
Well, I think we need tough enforcement of the civil rights laws. I
think we still need affirmative action. I would pass a hate crimes law,
as I said, and I guess I had misunderstood the governor's previous
position. The Byrd family may have a misunderstanding of it in Texas
also. But I would like to shift, if I could, to the big issue of
education.
Mr. Lehrer:
Hold on one second. What is the misunderstanding? Let's clear this up.
Vice President Gore
Well, I had thought that there was a controversy at the end of the
legislative session where the hate crimes law in Texas was -- failed, and
that the Byrd family, among others, asked you to support it, Governor,
and it died in committee for lack of support. Am I wrong about that?
Governor Bush
Well, you don't realize we have a hate crimes statute? We do.
Vice President Gore
I'm talking about the one that was proposed to deal --
Governor Bush
No -- well, what the Vice President must not understand is we've got a
hate crimes bill in Texas. And secondly, the people that murdered Mr.
Byrd got the ultimate punishment. The death penalty.
Mr. Lehrer:
They were prosecuted under the murder laws, were they not, in Texas?
Governor Bush
In this case when you murder somebody it's hate, Jim. The crime is
hate. And they got the ultimate punishment. I'm not exactly sure how
you enhance the penalty any more than the death penalty. We happen to
have a statute on the books that's a hate crimes statute in Texas.
Vice President Gore
May I respond?
Mr. Lehrer:
Sure.
Vice President Gore
I don't want to jump in. I may have been misled by all the news reports
about this matter, because the law that was proposed in Texas that had
the support of the Byrd family and a whole lot of people in Texas did, in
fact, die in committee. There may be some other statute that was already
on the books, but certainly the advocates of the hate crimes law felt
that a tough new law was needed. And it's important, Jim, not only --
not just because of Texas, but because this mirrors the national
controversy. There is pending now in the Congress a national hate crimes
law because of James Byrd, because of Matthew Shepard, who was crucified
on a split rail fence by bigots, and because of others. And that law has
died in committee also because of the same kind of opposition.
Mr. Lehrer:
And you would support that bill.
Vice President Gore
Absolutely.
Mr. Lehrer:
Would you support a national hate crimes law?
Governor Bush
I would support the Orrin Hatch version of it, not the Senator Kennedy
version. But let me say to you, Mr. Vice President, we're happy with our
laws on our books. That bill did -- there was another bill that did die
in committee. But I want to repeat, if you have a state that fully
supports the law like we do in Texas, we're going to go after all crime.
And we're going to make sure people get punished for the crime. And in
this case we can't enhance the penalty any more than putting those three
thugs to deaths. And that's what's gonna happen in the State of Texas.
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